跨国深谈

token

22分钟阅读

跨国深谈← 返回←token
TO

token

概念
本站收录 20 集 · 26 条金句 · 关联 10 个

集里怎么说它

① 提到它的金句

26 条

你可以尝试按 token 计费，然后你去找会计师事务所的 CEO，给他们这张按 token 计费的账单。他们看你的眼神就像你是个疯子。
You could try to have a very metered approach or do per token and then you’re going to your accounting firm CEO and you’re giving them this bill per token. They look at you like you’re nuts.
—— 嘉宾 · [18:44]

指向原始笔记的链接

通常，如果你使用最强大的模型，实际上反而更便宜，且消耗更少 token，因为它可以只用更少的纠错、更少的指导等就把同样的事情做得更快。
Often, it’s actually cheaper and less token-intensive if you use the most capable model, because it can just do the same thing much faster with less correction, less hand holding, and so on.
—— Boris Cherny · [69:39]

指向原始笔记的链接

我认为把 token 花费作为吹嘘的指标存在真正的危险，这就像人们吹嘘他们一天写了多少行代码一样。
I think there’s a real danger in making the token spend the metric to boast about, which is the same as when people boast about how many lines of code they’ve written in a day.
—— Max Schoening · [36:08]

指向原始笔记的链接

把你花在尝试另一个工具的时间看作拥有一个创新代币或一个创新预算，对吧？你没有世界上所有的时间。
Think about the time that you take to invest in trying in another tool as having an innovation token or an innovation budget, right? You don’t have all the time in the world.
—— 嘉宾 · [08:46]

指向原始笔记的链接

但下一层是关于，好，如果 token 并不是真正可互换的，你需要给它们分配不同的工作，比如这个 token 负责建议、那个负责执行，这个在「做梦」、那个在执行，诸如此类，你会想开始组合这些协同配合的编排式策略
But the next one is about, okay, if tokens aren’t really fungible and you need to give them different jobs, like maybe this token is advising versus this token is executing, this token is dreaming versus this token is executing, so on and so forth, you want to start composing these kind of orchestrated strategies that go together
—— 嘉宾 · [11:34]

指向原始笔记的链接

我确实认为 token 的成本会大幅下降，未来三年内成本降低 10 倍，而这 10 倍的成本降低将驱动 100 倍的使用量。
I do think the cost of token will go down drastically, 10x cost reduction in the next three years, and this 10x cost reduction will drive 100x usage.
—— Lin Qiao · [00:12]

指向原始笔记的链接

所以每一位 CIO 都需要回答:每多一个 token,我们该把它放在哪里?
So every CIO is going to need to answer, for every incremental token, where do we put it?
—— Matan Grinberg · [26:09]

指向原始笔记的链接

你可能不需要前沿的 token。你可能能够用前沿减一,或者你选择的开源权重 token 来应付。
you may not need frontier tokens. You may be able to get by with frontier minus one or your open weight token of choice.
—— Sriram Krishnan · [06:41]

指向原始笔记的链接

他们的那种 token 使用量每年增长十倍。
their kind of token usage is growing like tenfold annually.
—— Ben Horowitz · [24:19]

指向原始笔记的链接

大多数正在发生的 token 最大化并没有那么有价值，包括我自己过去几个月里做的很多。
most token maxing a lot of token maxing that is happening isn’t that valuable, including a lot that I have done over time in the last few months.
—— 嘉宾 · [14:19]

指向原始笔记的链接

至少我个人的决定是，我宁愿错在 token max 这一边，而不是不做的这边——反正你永远不会是对的。
at least my personal decision is I’d rather be wrong on the token maxing side than the non right, and you’re never going to be right.
—— 嘉宾 · [15:44]

指向原始笔记的链接

这里创造的价值太多了，以至于在那个场景下值得 token 最大化。
There’s so much value created that it’s worth token maxing in that context.
—— 嘉宾 · [59:58]

指向原始笔记的链接

如果你在 Opus 和 Haiku 上运行 terminal bench,Opus 的表现会好大约三倍,成本却是 Haiku 的十分之一,尽管 Haiku 每个 token 的价格要便宜得多。
If you run terminal bench on Opus and Haiku, Opus will do about three times better at one-tenth the cost of Haiku, even though Haiku is significantly cheaper per token.
—— 嘉宾 · [15:26]

指向原始笔记的链接

即使你是一个拥有十亿代币的人,即使你有 10 个终端没日没夜地运行 Fable,机会成本仍然存在,它就是一切。
Even if you’re a token billionaire, even if you have 10 terminals running Fable night and day, then opportunity cost is still there, it’s everything.
—— Idan Gazit · [01:34]

指向原始笔记的链接

当你说,嘿,清除暂存数据库,而它在你的笔记本电脑上发现了一个它可以使用的令牌,并且它认为它正在与暂存一起工作,但实际上它是生产环境,现在它刚刚删除了一切。
when you say, hey, wipe the staging database and it finds a token on your laptop that it can use and it thinks it’s working with staging, but actually it’s production and now it just deleted everything.
—— Arjun Singh · [10:58]

指向原始笔记的链接

这个产品本身，如果它真的存在，它会深埋在 Stripe 顶部的一个下拉菜单里，比如向下 11 层，因为它会被整个那种代币管理平台所吞并，对吧？
This product itself, if it does exist, it’ll be deep in a dropdown menu on the top of Stripe, like 11 layers down, because it’ll be subsumed into the whole sort of token management platform, right?
—— Rory O’Driscoll · [26:20]

指向原始笔记的链接

供应限制将在 2028 年左右缓解。我认为大型实验室按美元加权可能会获得未来 80% 的市场份额，因为这是我们历史上看到的大型在位者的情况。但我认为按 token 加权，60% 将是长尾和开源。
Supply constraints will ease in 2028-ish. I think that the big labs will probably dollar weighted, get 80% of the market going forward because that’s historically what we’ve seen for large incumbents. But I think token weighted 60% will be long tail and open source.
—— Martin Casado · [16:39]

指向原始笔记的链接

如果你看看一个每个 token 成本为双位数的美元的前沿模型，再看看一个每 token 成本为 10、11 美分的开源模型，虽然不是所有的 token 都生而平等，但这仍然是一个巨大的差异，足以带来大规模的采用。
if you’re looking at a frontier model with double dollar digit cost per token, and you’re looking at an open source model that’s 10, 11 cents per token, while all tokens aren’t created equal, it’s still enough of a difference that there’s going to be a massive adoption.
—— Jerry Murdock · [14:06]

指向原始笔记的链接

而且我们不再处于 token 最大化（token maxing）的时代了。我们试图实际上为我们拥有的每一个 token 获取价值，因为它变得越来越贵。
And we’re not in the time of token maxing anymore. We’re trying to go to actually getting value for every token that we have, because it becomes more and more and more expensive.
—— Ofir Ehrlich · [27:18]

指向原始笔记的链接

在法律领域，实际上你经常想要最大程度的智能，因为相比于应用到问题上的人类专业知识，token 支出或软件支出的比例真的很小。
In law, you actually want the most amount of intelligence quite often because the fraction of token spend or software spend compared to human expertise applied to the problem is really tiny.
—— Max Junestrand · [33:16]

指向原始笔记的链接

所以我们非常坚定地相信,下一个视点预测就是下一个 token 预测的等价物。
So we do believe very strongly that next viewpoint prediction is the equivalent of next token prediction.
—— 嘉宾 · [43:15]

指向原始笔记的链接

如果你不设干预阈值，智能体要么制造垃圾内容，要么烧出极高的 token 账单，因为它只会一直试下去，要么它们会伪造测试，就为了让测试通过。
If you don’t do that, agents will either um create slop or run uh very high token bill because it’s just gonna keep trying, or they’re gonna fake the tests uh just to to to have the test passed.
—— Ran Arusi · [12:37]

指向原始笔记的链接

据我们所知，我们是唯一做过稳健的数百万 token 预训练的人。
As far as we know, we are the only people to do robust multi-million token pre-training.
—— Alexander Whedon · [11:26]

指向原始笔记的链接

是的,根据我们在这里能想到的一切测量手段,你的 token 已经买不到它曾经能买到的东西了。
Yes, your token is not buying you what it once did, according to everything we can think to measure here.
—— Chris Potts · [43:56]

指向原始笔记的链接

人们把一整年的 token 预算挥霍一空——而且是在一个季度里就挥霍完了——或者他们在应付 token 排行榜之类的东西。
People are blowing through their entire token budget for a year and they’re blowing through it in a quarter or they’re dealing with token leaderboards and such.
—— Maximillian Piras · [09:23]

指向原始笔记的链接

我认为大型模型公司有一些大的护城河，因为它们最终提供 token。
I think the large model companies have some big moat because they ultimately give the token.
—— Peter Steinberger · 来自原文

指向原始笔记的链接

② 出现在这些集

20 集

③ 关联

点进去有真内容 —— 本页主要出口

智能体 · Anthropic · Cursor · OpenAI · 推理 · NVIDIA · Codex · 后训练 · OpenRouter · harness

反向链接