代码

代码 (code)

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因为为智能体构建的代码库实际上看起来和为人类构建的代码库不一样。
Because the code base that’s built for agents actually looks different than the code base built for humans.
—— 嘉宾 · [42:06]

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我认为 Anthropic 大约 80% 的人员是技术人员,每天都使用 Claude Code。
I think about 80% of people at Anthropic that are technical use Claude Code every day.
—— Boris · [27:08]

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我认为人们真的忽视了 Claude Code 对非程序员来说有多好用。
I think people are truly sleeping on how good Claude Code is for non-coders.
—— Dan Shipper · [07:16]

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我认为这样的原因是,我确实认为创建软件的行为将从输入到终端或输入到 Visual Studio 代码转变为操作一台代码生成机器。
The reason I think that is I do think the act of creating software is going to transform from typing into a terminal or typing into Visual Studio code to operating a code-generating machine.
—— Bret Taylor · [32:29]

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我认为我们需要更多类似的东西,因为如果 AI 正在生成这些代码,根据定义,如果你必须阅读每一行,那将是生产代码的制约因素,或者更糟的是,你只是不会阅读每一行,而且你将向世界发布一堆不安全、未经验证的代码。
I think we need more things like that because if an AI is generating this code, by definition, if you have to read every line that is going to be the limiting factor for producing the code or worse, you’re just not going to read every line and you’re going to emit a bunch of unsafe unverified code into the wild.
—— Bret Taylor · [41:16]

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但现实是,至少就目前而言,AI 模型吐出的很多代码在根本上并不安全。
But the reality is, at least as it sits today, a lot of code that AI models spit out is not fundamentally secure.
—— Vineet Edupuganti · [05:48]

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所以我们的目标之一是确保,每当我们收到来自客户的反馈,它都能在 24 小时内进入我们的代码库。
So one of our goals is to make sure that, like, every time we cut feedback from customers, that gets to our code base in 24 hours.
—— Evan Reiser · [27:06]

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我见过市场销售团队的成员,按各种标准衡量他们都不该会写代码,但这些人正在构建应用程序和工具,去解决他们自己遇到的问题。
I’ve had members of the go-to-market team where by all measures they should not be able to write code and these guys are building applications and tools to go and solve the problems that they have.
—— Vineet Edupuganti · [28:40]

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如果目标是更多的代码行,我可以提示某物写出有史以来最长的代码并添加大量的注释。
If the goal is more lines of code, I can prompt something to write the longest piece of code ever and add tons of comments.
—— Nicole Forsgren · [12:56]

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现在这么多时间将花在审查代码而不是编写代码上。
So much of the time is now going to be spent reviewing code versus writing code.
—— Lenny · [00:42]

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但它现在是什么,好吧,如果你和昨天世界上最优秀的程序员交谈,他们会告诉你,“噢,我的工作是我坐在那里,我正在编排 10 个代码机器人,正在并行运行的编码机器人。“
But what it is now is, all right, if you talk to the world’s best programmer of yesterday, what they’ll tell you is, “Oh, my job is I’m sitting there and I’m orchestrating 10 code bots, coding bots that are running in parallel.”
—— Marc Andreessen · [45:29]

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如果目标是成为一名平庸的编码员,那就让 AI 去做吧。没问题。AI 将非常擅长生成无限的平庸代码。
If the goal is to be a mediocre coder, then just let the AI do it. It’s fine. The AI is going to be perfectly good in generating infinite amounts of mediocre code.
—— Marc Andreessen · [47:37]

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虽然英语是第一编程语言,但 Lovable 和所有其他工具仍然用代码进行最佳交流。
Even though English is the number one programming language, Lovable and all other tools still communicate in code the best.
—— Lazar Jovanovic · [24:01]

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你可以编码很快,但你可以很快编码出垃圾,也可以很快编码出魔法。所花费的时间是一样的。重要的是你和你的输入。
You can code fast, but you can code garbage fast as well as magic fast. It’s the same amount of time. It’s you and your input that matters.
—— Lazar Jovanovic · [98:47]

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有一个团队实际上正在 OpenAI 内部进行一项实验,他们维护着一个 100% 由 Codex 编写的代码库。
There’s a team that’s actually doing an experiment right now within OpenAI where they are maintaining a 100% Codex-written code base.
—— Sherwin Wu · [00:35]

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而且如果你看那条指数曲线,那个时间点由 Claude 编写的代码百分比,如果你只是沿着线画过去,很明显我们在年底就会超过 100%,即使这完全不符合直觉。
If you look at the exponential, the percent of code that was written by Claude at that point, if you just trace the line, it’s pretty obvious we’re going to cross 100% by the end of the year, even if it just does not match intuition at all.
—— Boris Cherny · [14:40]

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我的看法是,对于今天正在使用 Claude Code,正在使用智能体写代码的人来说,你仍然必须理解底下那层,但是,是的,在一两年后,这就不重要了。
My take is I think for people that are using Claude Code, that are using agents to code today, you still have to understand the layer under, but, yeah, in a year or two, it’s not going to matter.
—— Boris Cherny · [32:27]

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我花了一整天的时间来完善那段代码,确保我理解所有东西,撰写一个恰当的 PR 描述,因为我不想失去我的身份
I spent a whole lot of day polishing up that code, making sure I understand everything, crafting a proper PR description because I don’t want to lose my identity
—— 嘉宾 · [19:03]

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随着编写代码的成本变低得多,变得更有价值的是决定写什么。
As code becomes much cheaper to write, the thing that becomes more valuable is deciding what to write.
—— Kat Wu · [00:50]

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我认为巨大的转变在于,2024 年一代的产品是基于聊天的,而云端代码这一代的产品是基于行动的。
I think the big shift is that the 2024 generation of products were chat-based and the cloud code generation of products is action-based
—— Kat Wu · [74:38]

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如果 Claude Code 失败了,但 Anthropic 成功了,我会非常高兴。
if Claude Code failed, but Anthropic succeeded, I would be extremely happy.
—— Kat Wu · [31:47]

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我认为把 token 花费作为吹嘘的指标存在真正的危险,这就像人们吹嘘他们一天写了多少行代码一样。
I think there’s a real danger in making the token spend the metric to boast about, which is the same as when people boast about how many lines of code they’ve written in a day.
—— Max Schoening · [36:08]

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建立交易所的困难部分不是为交易所编写代码。而是说服每个人围绕你的交易所进行协调,而不是别人的。
The hard part of setting up an exchange is not writing the code for the exchange. It’s convincing everybody to coordinate around yours rather than somebody else’s.
—— Patrick Collison · [29:24]

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过去三十年里,我们被告知永远不要执行一段随机代码。这意味着科技树的整个分支一直未被探索。
For the last thirty years, we have been told to never evaluate a random code. Yeah. Which means there’s this entire branch of the tech tree that’s been, like, unexplored.
—— Matt Carey · [07:11]

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其中一个是认知债务。特别是当我们习惯了代码生成得如此之快这一事实,我们也可能开始丧失关于事情如何正确完成的肌肉记忆。
One of them is cognitive debt. And so especially as we get used to the fact that code is getting generated so quickly right now, we can also start to lose our muscle memory around how things get done right.
—— 嘉宾 · [12:37]

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使用这些工具保持高速度的一个很大部分,就是不允许垃圾代码进入代码库。
A big part of maintaining high velocity with these tools is just not permitting slop to enter the code base.
—— Ryan Lopopolo · [11:36]

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我实际上发现先生成代码会容易得多,让那段代码有点像是一个关于世界可能样子的草案,作为团队与之互动来完善它,然后从中提炼出规范。
I’ve actually found it is much easier to produce the code first, to have that code sort of like present a straw man for what the world could look like, engage with that as a team to refine it, and then distill the spec out of that.
—— Ryan Lopopolo · [28:20]

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因为每个人都可以写自己的框架,你的不一定比我的更好或更差,因为实际上就像,如果你的整个防御或护城河是你与其他所有东西的集成生态系统,嗯,我也可以 vibe code。所以,你到底有什么用?
Because everyone can write their own framework, and yours is not not necessarily as better or worse than mine because it’s actually like, if your your whole defense or your moat is your ecosystem of integrations with everything else, well, I can vibe code that too. So, like, what the hell use are you?
—— Swyx · [16:04]

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作为 CTO,我不想登上头版,就像我安装了某个奇怪的 NPM 包并泄露了所有的代码。
as the CTO, I don’t want to end up on the front page as like I installed some weird NPM package and leaked all the code.
—— Matei Zaharia · [21:47]

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多年来设计界无休止地讨论设计与代码这个话题,我现在就直说了,这是一场虚假的辩论。
For years the design industry has endlessly discussed this topic of design versus code and I will just say it flat out right now this is a false debate.
—— Dylan Field · [09:29]

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虽然智能体让写数千行代码变得容易得多,但围绕代码的工作流根本不是为共同探索而构建的。
while agents have made it so much easier to write thousands of lines of code, the workflows around code are not built for exploring together at all.
—— Nico · [12:20]

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你今天看到的一切,代码、动画、你自己的工具、你自己的素材,它们都共存于画布之中。
Everything you saw today, code, motion, your own tools, your own materials, it all lives together in the canvas.
—— Dylan Field · [69:43]

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只是你不是把它应用在代码上,你是把它应用在制造代码的机器上。
It’s just you’re not applying it to the code, you’re applying it to the machine that makes the code.
—— Daniel Jones · [27:31]

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我现在称之为软件工程的垃圾桶法,在那里你实际上可以丢弃所有代码,就像开始一个 slash V2 分支并从头开始重建它。
I call this the trashcan method of software engineering right now, where you can actually trash all the code, start like a slash V2 branch and rebuild it from scratch.
—— Claire Vo · [00:57]

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如何编写干净代码的旧价值观等等都不重要了
the old values of how you write clean code and blah, blah, blah don’t matter
—— Kitsa · [13:31]

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因为想法是容易的。想法是显而易见地容易。我们每年有一千个想法,其中很多甚至拿不到代号。想法不是难的部分。我们的 alpha 来自我们能多高效地发现哪些想法有价值。
Because the ideas are easy. Ideas are trivially easy. We have a thousand ideas a year, that many of them just don’t even get code names. Ideas are not the hard part. Our alpha comes from how efficiently we can discover which ideas are valuable.
—— Astro Teller · [13:20]

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无论你多厉害,你都不可能用 vibe coding 做出 Shopify。
You’re not going to vibe code Shopify, no matter how good you are.
—— Avishai Abrahami · [00:00]

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当你坐下来使用 Cloud Code 或 Codex 时,你不是在编写软件,你是在雇佣、培训和管理一支由 Markdown 组成的劳动力。
When you sit down with Cloud Code or Codex, you’re not writing software, you’re hiring, training, and managing a workforce made of Markdown.
—— Garry Tan · [05:58]

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所以,可能是一个智能体编写了代码,或者我帮助进行了分析,而这并不是我的背景,但这并不意味着人们不需要对他们所创造的东西带来的责任负责。
So, it can be that an agent wrote the code or I helped to do an analysis when that’s not really my background, but it doesn’t make people not have the responsibility that comes with what they’ve created.
—— Elizabeth Stone · [06:02]

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但我认为如果说设计和深刻的设计专业知识及思维因此而被挤出,那将是一个错误,仅仅是因为我们可以更快地编写代码,我们可以更快地进行数据分析。
But I think it would be a mistake to say design and deep design expertise and thinking gets squeezed out, just because we can write code faster, we can do data analysis faster.
—— Elizabeth Stone · [21:32]

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换句话说,如果明天所有人都病倒了,很多 Claude Code 的使用量会直接归零。
In other words, like if everyone woke up sick tomorrow, like a lot of Claude code usage would be zero.
—— Matan Grinberg · [46:27]

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在对冲基金,我们要试图交易数十亿美元,所以我们不能仅仅让 vibe coding 成为这些分析的基石。
At a hedge fund, we’re trying to trade billions of dollars, and so we can’t have just vibe code be the underpinning of how these analysis go.
—— 嘉宾 · [17:16]

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对代码的理解将会变少,因为没有人再编写代码了。
So much less understanding of code is going to be present because no one wrote the code anymore.
—— Anish · [02:07]

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每个问题的答案都是一个模型。你很想为它写一大堆代码?不。
The answer to every problem is a model. You’re tempted to write a bunch of code for it? No.
—— 嘉宾 · [00:00]

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我们的目标是把更多东西放进学习到的模型里,而不是放在代码里。
our goal is to push more things inside learned models rather than in code.
—— 嘉宾 · [24:58]

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我上次看的时候,Dark Factory 代码库中只有大约 5% 曾经由人类查看过 PR 并批准它。
Last time I looked, I think about only 5% of the Dark Factory code base had ever had a human look at the PR and approve it.
—— Rob Willoughby · [00:11]

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我认为人们实际上不再去查看代码了,因为他们都在使用智能体。
I don’t think people actually go look at code anymore because they’re all just using agents.
—— Rob Willoughby · [00:18]

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而且我不认为人们还会去查看代码了,因为他们都只是在用智能体。
And I’m not, I don’t think people actually go look at code anymore because they’re all just using agents.
—— Rob Willoughby · [32:01]

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它运行了11天。它重写了整个代码库。
And it ran for 11 days. And it rewrote the entire code base.
—— Boris Cherny · [18:01]

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写代码的问题在于你可能有 10,000 行你希望是对的代码,但真正去阅读并理解它们几乎是不可能的;理解代码可能比写代码花的时间还多。
The problem with writing code is that you might have 10,000 lines you hope are right, but actually reading and understanding them is almost impossible; it can take more time to understand the code than to write it.
—— Carlos González de Villaumbrosia · [24:10]

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他们审查的不是 10,000 行代码;他们审查的是一个他们能轻松理解并逐步走过的工作流,所以他们确切知道它会做什么。
And they’re not reviewing 10,000 lines of code; they’re reviewing a workflow they can easily understand and step through, so they know exactly what it will do.
—— Carlos González de Villaumbrosia · [35:08]

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劣质代码就是任何你不阅读的代码。
Slop is just any code you don’t read.
—— Vaibhav Gupta · [01:30]

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无论你们承不承认,这都是你们的代码库曾经拥有的最少量的劣质代码。
Whether any of you admit it or not, this is the least amount of slop that your code base will ever have.
—— Vaibhav Gupta · [01:32]

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代码可以是劣质的,写作不能。
Code can be slopped, writing cannot.
—— Vaibhav Gupta · [02:46]

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代码是信任的问题。
Code is a matter of trust.
—— Vaibhav Gupta · [17:15]

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我们不盲目使用 LLM 代码的原因是我们还不信任它,因为它们底层的系统没有足够的刚性。
The reason that we don’t use LLM code blindly is because we don’t trust it yet, because the systems underneath them don’t have enough rigidity.
—— Vaibhav Gupta · [17:17]

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AI 审批的 PR 以及总体上 AI 编写的代码甚至可以比仅有人类在流程中所做的更安全、质量更高。
AI approved PRs and AI written code in general can be even safer and even higher quality than what you’re doing with just a human in the loop.
—— Claire · [03:47]

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我的核心观点是个人 AI 代码生成打破了传统的云基础设施。
My key point is personal AI code gen breaks traditional cloud infrastructure.
—— Kenton Varda · [00:37]

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我认为仅靠代码技能正变得过时。
I think code skills alone are becoming passe.
—— Oji Udezue · [58:31]

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我们发现的核心张力在于,这些智能体喜欢看起来像代码的东西。
The central tension that we found is that these agents love things that feel like code.
—— 嘉宾 · [06:03]

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如果你作为工程师让智能体做出关键决策,你就是在放弃你的代码的控制权。
If you as an engineer are letting an agent make a critical decision, you are ceding control of your code.
—— Matt Dailey · [03:27]

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你正在从代码速度转向想法速度。
You’re shifting from code velocity to idea velocity.
—— Matt Dailey · [15:13]

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我热爱写代码、喜欢构建产品,能写多少就写多少,但最近我在有意识地让自己戒掉这件事,因为公司的瓶颈不在这。
I love writing code and like building the product so as much as I can, but recently I’ve been like consciously weeding myself off of it because the bottlenecks of the company.
—— Ali Haghani · [07:47]

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代码不再能代表你的能力了。
The code doesn’t speak for your ability anymore.
—— Wes Bos · [01:17]

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但是无代码的时代,那些人类可以在没有工程资源的情况下做的事情,它正在慢慢结束。
But the era of no code, of things that humans can do without engineering resources, it’s slowly winding down.
—— Jason Lamkin · [13:04]

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但即便如此,智能体在代码审查方面也比以前的人类做得更好。
But even then, agents are doing code review even better than humans did before.
—— Will Gabrick · [26:52]

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现在如果你正在使用 Claude Code 或 Codex,很有可能已经启动了 20 或 30 个子智能体。
And now if you’re using Claude Code or Codex, it’s very possible that 20 or 30 sub-agents have fired.
—— Addy Osmani · [63:04]

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你会怎么对待一个既了解你的代码库又能编写代码来解决你业务中任何问题的人?
What would you do with somebody who both knew your code base and could write code to solve anything in your business?
—— Claire · [23:28]

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你们时间线上最沉迷 AI 的两个人花了我们大部分时间谈论太多的 AI 代码其实并不能给你带来好产品。
The two most AI-pilled people on your timeline spent most of our time talking about how too much AI code doesn’t really get you great product.
—— Claire · [42:13]

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因为根据我的经验,通常架构正确的代码也是运行快速的代码。
Because in my experience, usually the code that is architected properly is also the code that runs quickly.
—— Casey Moratori · [85:08]

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未来的代码看起来会像伪代码。
Code in the future will look like pseudocode.
—— Martin Casado · [04:33]

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今天,Anthropic是什么,它全是关于代码。那就是那句话。那是唯一重要的一句话。
Today, what Anthropic is, it’s all about code. That’s the sentence. That’s the only sentence that matters.
—— 嘉宾 · [38:05]

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与其等待模型赶上做服务知识工作,如果我们只是使用那些代码知识并将知识工作表示为代码会怎么样?
Rather than wait for the models to catch up on doing services knowledge work, what if we just use that code knowledge and represent knowledge work as code?
—— Varun Shenoy · [09:35]

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任何做这行有一段时间的人都知道,代码行数是一个很糟糕的指标。
Anybody who’s been doing it any length of time knows that lines of code is a terrible metric.
—— 嘉宾 · [69:59]

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而且实际上,这种特异性——能够精确调整你正在审查的内容——在你走向工厂的过程中变得越来越重要,因为说真的,工厂将要产出的量,你必须让人类退出代码审查的循环。
And in fact, this specificity, you know, being able to tune exactly what you’re reviewing becomes increasingly important as you move towards factory because really the volume a factory is going to put out, you have to get humans out of the loop for code review.
—— Drew · [20:02]

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具体性基本上是所有质量的标尺。比如如果你能给智能体一个非常具体的任务,让它对要做什么有清晰的指示,那就会比一个泛泛的『这样去找代码坏味道』要好。
Specificity basically is the ruler of all quality. Like if you can have a very specific task that the agent has clear instructions on what to do, it’s gonna be better than a generic here’s how to look for code smells.
—— Drew · [42:17]

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逆风,但我们正在构建的代码量字面意义上是 100 倍。
Headwinds, but literally the amount of code we’re building is 100x.
—— 嘉宾 · [40:16]

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很容易说大多数人不想写代码,但我想法上的大转变是,编程智能体其实是一种与世界互动的通用方式。
I think it’s easy to say most people don’t want to make code, but the big change in my thinking is that coding agents are a way to interact with the world generally.
—— Anish Acharya · [51:57]

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我们已经越过了人类会阅读每一行代码的时间点。
We’ve passed the point where humans will read every line of code.
—— JD · [39:57]

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如果你把所有东西都写在同一个代码库里、同一种语言里,那不可避免地你会写得有点草率,你会把不该纠缠的东西纠缠在一起。
And if you write everything in the same code base, in the same language, it’s like inevitably you’re going to be a little bit sloppy and you’re going to intertwine things more than you should.
—— Tibo Sottiaux · [19:54]

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如果你在做某件事,而且你在搭建一个一万行的代码拐杖来绕过模型的缺陷,那你很可能在做错误的事情。
If you’re doing something and you’re building like this 10,000 lines of code crutch to work around the model flaws, you’re probably doing the wrong thing.
—— Tibo Sottiaux · [42:29]

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当我们做基准测试时,它们在代码评审上是超越人类的。
When we benchmark them, it’s like they’re superhuman in code review.
—— Tibo Sottiaux · [47:53]

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所以那大概算是比较不讲道理的事情之一,比如,对,就把这整个 Python 代码库移植到 TypeScript,让它跑起来、能部署,就在一个周末之内。
So that probably ranks on like the more unreasonable things like, yeah, just port this entire Python code base to TypeScript, get it working, get it deployable in, you know, a weekend.
—— 嘉宾 · [00:41]

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AI 生成的代码,应该让人感觉是那种已经在你团队待了多年的人写出来的。
AI-generated code should feel like it was written by someone who’s been on your team for years.
—— Brandon Waselnuk · [01:13]

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完全相同的问题,如果所有的代码审查智能体都以同样的方式带有偏见,它们就会漏掉完全同一类 bug,那我们就全完了。
Same exact issue, if all the code review agents are biased in the same way, they will miss exactly the same class of bugs and then we’re all sunk.
—— Chris Potts · [55:13]

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这遵循了我们 Prefect 的很多软件都努力坚持的一个原则,那就是一行代码,一个显著的大变化。
So this follows a principle that we really try to hold in a lot of our software at Prefect, which is one line of code, one big noticeable change.
—— Jeremiah Lowin · [11:49]

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从某种意义上说,现在我们有一个理解设计意图的智能,而同一个智能也能写代码。
In a sense, now we have one intelligence that understands design intent and the same intelligence can write code.
—— Jonathan Gordon · [03:26]

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工程师的时间只有大约 40% 用于写代码,其中只有约 10% 用于写新代码。也就是说,工程师有 60% 的时间花在非编码任务、非编码工作上。
An engineer’s time is only like 40% writing code and only like 10% writing new code. So there’s 60% of an engineer’s time that is non-coding tasks, non-coding work.
—— Robert Lucero · [27:20]

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如果你的智能体代码所落地的底层基础不好,它们的贡献也会不好。
If the substrate on which your agent’s code lands is bad, their contributions will be bad as well.
—— Jonathan Kelley · [16:15]

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就像人类工程师能写出面条式代码一样,智能体也能,只是现在更快了。
Just like human engineers can write spaghetti code, so can the agents, but now just faster.
—— Jonathan Kelley · [16:40]

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阅读代码一直以来都比编写代码更重要。
Reading code has always been more important than writing code.
—— Jonathan Kelley · [17:59]

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关于使用编码智能体构建有雄心的软件,我的结语是:代码现在很廉价,但质量不是。
So my closing thoughts on using coding agents to build ambitious software is that code is now cheap, but quality is not.
—— Jonathan Kelley · [18:07]

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软件工程师的工作从来都不只是把代码行放到屏幕上。
The job of a software engineer has never really been about putting lines of code on the screen.
—— Jonathan Kelley · [18:17]

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他们拥有的是数百个为他们写代码的 AI 工程师。
What they have is hundreds of AI engineers that they code for them.
—— Matteo Franceschetti · [19:51]

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