Scale
集里怎么说它
- 《Handshake:靠学生网络四个月做到五千万ARR》(04:20起):本集提到 Scale 被以约 300 亿美元收购,过去是标注领域的主要公司,但竞争对手可能不希望自己的最新研究被同行投资
- 《Scale AI 创始人 Alexandr Wang:AI 时代,最稀缺的不是智能而是愿景》(01:48起):本集说它是嘉宾在19岁时创办的公司,核心业务是提供训练模型的数据,因为在MIT训练模型时发现获取数据和算力、代码不同,无法按个按钮就拿到。
① 提到它的金句
25 条
Cloudflare 在大规模上做很多事情,但我们现在必须忍受我们自己的规模反作用于我们。就像行星计算机将开始攻击自己。
指向原始笔记的链接
Cloudflare does a lot of things at scale, but we now have to tolerate our own scale back at us. It’s like the planetary computer is going to start attacking itself.
—— Matt Carey · [10:48]
问题在于,在医疗健康领域,在不同国家打造跨国业务是如此困难,以至于它成了一道不可逾越的屏障,这意味着没有参与者能够实现国际化扩张。
指向原始笔记的链接
The issue is that, in health, as it is so difficult to create something international in the different countries, it has become an insurmountable barrier, which means that no actor has been able to scale internationally.
—— Charles Gorintin · [11:56]
也没有互联网规模的分发能力,你就是历史上贬值最快的资产。
指向原始笔记的链接
And internet scale distribution, you’re the fastest depreciating asset in history.
—— David George · [21:11]
客户愿意付钱给他们,也非常看重他们的产品,但他们无法扩展,因为一旦扩展,他们可能会扩展到破产。
指向原始笔记的链接
Customers want to pay them, and they really value their product, but they cannot scale because once they scale, they could scale into bankruptcy.
—— Lin Qiao · [16:27]
在整个开源模型、替代模型、模型优化市场真正起飞之前,这家公司就已经在一个可能会让大多数人震惊的规模上疯狂盈利了。
指向原始笔记的链接
This company is wildly profitable at a scale that would probably shock most people before this whole open source model, alternative model, model optimization market really takes off.
—— Matt Murphy · [28:41]
如果我们扩展规模,仅靠扩展规模并没有帮助。你需要增加模型的多样性。
指向原始笔记的链接
If we scale, scaling alone doesn’t help. You need to increase the diversity of the models.
—— Damian Borth · [24:25]
对其中很多平台来说,你可以非常快地搭建出一个东西,但如果你真的想把它投入生产或扩展规模,平台就到顶了。
指向原始笔记的链接
With many of them you could build something very fast, but if you actually wanted to bring it into production or scale it, the platform maxed out.
—— Carlos González de Villaumbrosia · [06:35]
所以这现在是一个验证装置,但它不再需要一个晚上,他们制造了一个速度快 300,000 倍并且几乎与运行全尺寸模拟器一样准确的东西。
指向原始笔记的链接
So this is now a validation device, but instead of it taking a night, they made something that was 300,000 times faster and nearly as accurate as running the full scale simulator.
—— Jeff Dean · [45:17]
本质上,对抗规模的结构将总是输掉,而引导规模的结构将总是获胜。
指向原始笔记的链接
Essentially, structure that fights scale will always lose, and structure that channels scale always wins.
—— Dmitri Dolgov · [31:25]
一个如此智能、无所不知、可以扩展并分发到宇宙四角的 AI,不可能只待在地球上的数据中心里,不可能属于一个人。
指向原始笔记的链接
An AI that is so intelligent, that knows everything, that can scale and be distributed to the four corners of the universe cannot sit in a data center on Earth, cannot belong to one person.
—— Paolo Ardoino · [16:05]
也许等我们规模扩大 10 倍时这就不适用了,但现在我们只在乎用最好的工具产出最高质量的成果。
指向原始笔记的链接
Maybe that doesn’t scale when we’re like 10x the size, but right now we just care about using the best tools to produce the highest quality output.
—— Ali Haghani · [11:17]
所以归根结底,付费是验证你拥有 PLG、验证你拥有一个能以任何方式、形状或形式扩展的产品最简单的方法。
指向原始笔记的链接
So at the end of the day, paid is the easiest way to validate that you have PLG, that you have a product that can scale in any way, shape, or form.
—— Matt Swulinski · [08:01]
我们模式的美妙之处在于,我们主要是一个可变成本模式。这意味着当需求下降时,很好,我们的成本随之下降。但这也意味着我们确实没有固定的产能可以送出去。
指向原始笔记的链接
The beauty of our model is we’re primarily a variable cost model. It means when demand drops, great, our costs scale down with it. But it also means that we just don’t have a fixed capacity to give away.
—— Andrew MacDonald · [11:46]
你需要花哨的算法,但你想要那些将随计算扩展的花哨算法。
指向原始笔记的链接
You need fancy algorithms, but you want fancy algorithms that will scale with computation.
—— Rich Sutton · [09:33]
他们创造的奖励信号还不够纯粹,无法支持前沿公司运行 RL 的规模。
指向原始笔记的链接
And the reward signals that they are creating are just not pure enough to support the scale at which the frontier companies are running RL.
—— 嘉宾 · [03:38]
我认为这需要信心——相信如果你把东西造好,解决以前没被解决的问题,规模化会随后而来。
指向原始笔记的链接
I think it takes confidence to believe that if you build something well, you can solve problems that have never been solved before that will scale later.
—— Nick Noone · [41:22]
它从根本上改变了我能做的事情的规模,我过去常常碰壁的时间、精力、能力等限制要低得多了。
指向原始笔记的链接
It has fundamentally changed the scale of what I can do, the limits of what I use to bump up against time, energy, capacity are way lower.
—— 嘉宾 · [19:12]
我们不是在尝试打造或规模化一个专业服务部门。这本质上是为了弄清楚如何以最好的方式把这项技术带进真实世界,然后把所有这些经验模板化,并把它们送出去,要么作为产品,要么作为蓝图。
指向原始笔记的链接
We’re not trying to build or scale a professional services arm. This is essentially to figure out how to bring this technology into the real world in the best possible way, and then take all those learnings, templatize them, and give them away, either as product or as blueprints.
—— Amandeep Khurana · [13:00]
否则,如果它只留在一小撮人手里,AI 就不会在人类的尺度上兑现。它将保持集中在非常小的一群人中,并且仅限于那一小群人所能产生的影响。
指向原始笔记的链接
Otherwise, if it only remains with a small set of people, AI will not play out at the scale of humanity. It will remain concentrated among a very small group, and limited to the impact that small group can have.
—— Amandeep Khurana · [18:56]
但一切都有瓶颈,我认为持续扩展这个东西的主要瓶颈实际上是训练算力。
指向原始笔记的链接
But everything has a bottleneck, and I think the main bottleneck on continuing to scale this thing is actually training compute.
—— Justin Johnson · [23:04]
你比只是写个提示词时更多地把自己从循环中抽离出来。这样你才能真正把自己扩展放大。
指向原始笔记的链接
So you’re taking yourself out of the loop more than you are with just like a prompt. That way you can actually scale yourself.
—— Tyler Folkman · [05:26]
更难的问题在于如何大规模地复刻一家公司的运作方式。
指向原始笔记的链接
The harder problems are in trying to replicate the way a company works at scale.
—— Sharadh Krishnamurthy · [03:41]
如果超过 30 或 40 个工具,我们就无法在不降低上下文质量或系统性能的情况下扩展。
指向原始笔记的链接
We cannot scale it beyond 30 or 40 tools without degrading the context or degrading the performance of the system.
—— Ajay Prakash · [17:23]
瓶颈最终转移到了验证这一侧,因此,我们没有办法大规模地衡量价值,并以同样的速度判断质量。
指向原始笔记的链接
the bottleneck ends up shifting to the verification side, and thus, we don’t have a way to measure value at scale and to judge quality at the same speed.
—— Maximillian Piras · [12:20]
所以这里的要点是,要解决规模化问题,你必须真正地往小处想,想所有尽可能小的事情,想所有可能出错和必将出错的事情,然后提前尝试解决它们。
指向原始笔记的链接
And so the takeaway here is that to solve the scale problem, you have to actually think small, think all the smallest thing possible, think everything that can go wrong and will go wrong, and then try to solve it before.
—— Vincent Wendy · [15:44]
② 出现在这些集
2 集
- 《Handshake:靠学生网络四个月做到五千万ARR》 — 作为被讨论公司(提及)
- 《Scale AI 创始人 Alexandr Wang:AI 时代,最稀缺的不是智能而是愿景》 — 作为被讨论公司
③ 关联
点进去有真内容 —— 本页主要出口
智能体 · Palantir · Meta · Garrett Lord · Alexandr Wang · Lenny · MuseSpark · Handshake · 开源模型 · 后训练
