Work
集里怎么说它
- 《OpenAI 产品负责人谈：AI时代怎么做产品、写文档、抬野心》(00:00起):本集说 Work 模式底层就是 Codex 的能力，但移除了编码 UI，让非开发者也能用智能体完成复杂金融模型等知识工作
① 提到它的金句
144 条
所以我们基本上是按照一个代理指标收费的——该事务所拥有的终端客户数量，它或多或少代理了所完成的工作量；这个方式现在行得通，以后也会变，但你绝对不能按席位收费，你要为所做的工作找一个代理指标。
指向原始笔记的链接
So we essentially bill on a proxy of… the amount of end clients that the firm has which more or less proxies the work that is done and that works for now and it’ll sort of change as things go on but you definitely can’t do it by seat and you want to proxy something about the work being done.
—— 嘉宾 · [18:55]
你可以在你的家庭故事中成为主角，但在你工作的公司故事中，你可能不是主角。
指向原始笔记的链接
You can be the protagonist in the story of your family, but in the story of your work of a company, you are probably not the protagonist.
—— Hilary Gridley · [51:09]
如今如此多有价值的科技公司实际上并不是从任何技术突破开始的。它们建立在某种技术突破之上，最终构建了更多的技术。但实际上很多这样的公司，比如 Facebook，只是付出了努力，尤其是早期阶段，在本质上的人类连接数据库之上构建有价值的东西。
指向原始笔记的链接
so many of the tech companies that are most valuable today didn’t really start with any technological breakthrough. They were built on some kind of technological breakthrough and they ended up building a lot more technology. But really a lot of these companies, like Facebook for example, just put in the hard work, the elbow grease, especially in the early stages, to take essentially a database of human connections and build something valuable on top of it.
—— Peter Deng · [23:03]
所以我注意到的是，你可以通过你可以给它多长的”绳子”去工作来判断 AI 变好了多少。
指向原始笔记的链接
And so what I have noticed is that you can tell how much better AI is getting by how long a leash you can give it to do work.
—— Dan Shipper · [14:57]
如果你整天在工作中，你在救火，你会想，“好吧，我是要用我知道的方式做这件事，还是用可能不奏效的新方式做？“
指向原始笔记的链接
If you’re working in a job all day, you’re fighting fires, and you’re like, “Okay, am I going to do this in the way that I know how or am I going to do it in the new way that might not work?”
—— Dan Shipper · [30:44]
所以基本上，对于每一个工作单元，你应该让下一个工作单元更容易做。
指向原始笔记的链接
So basically, for every unit of work, you should make the next unit of work easier to do.
—— Dan Shipper · [42:10]
如果它第一次不起作用，再问三次，因为当你完全重新开始并再试一次时，我们的成功率比你只尝试一次然后继续在同一个不起作用的事情上敲打要高得多。
指向原始笔记的链接
And if it doesn’t work the first time, asking three more times because our success rate when you just completely start over and try again is much, much higher than if you just try once and then just keep banging on the same thing that didn’t work.
—— Benjamin Mann · [19:13]
我们已经从软件是付费访问转变为现在你是在为交付的工作付费。
指向原始笔记的链接
We have moved from software being a pay for access to now you’re paying for work delivered.
—— Madhavan Ramanujam · [29:51]
跟 Brian 的产品会议会让人们前一天晚上睡不着，不仅因为他们真的通宵工作做准备，还因为他们知道他们要通宵工作，因为他们可能因为期待这个而睡不着觉。
指向原始笔记的链接
A product meeting with Brian would keep people up the night before, not just because they were actually working all night long to get prepared, but also they knew they would work all night long because they probably wouldn’t sleep in anticipation for this.
—— Chip Connolly · [16:21]
所有的失败都是那些试图同时玩多个游戏且拥有稀缺资源的，如果你是早期初创公司，这往往是行不通的。
指向原始笔记的链接
all the failures are the ones that tried to play multiple games at once with scarce resources, and that just tends to never work if you’re an early-stage startup.
—— Brian Balfour · [51:49]
在过去20年里，我们就工作如何完成有着非常固定的比例。PM花费这么多时间，开发人员花费这么多时间，上市花费这么多时间。我认为这种契约基本上正在爆炸，因为构建过程，封闭的求解过程，构建过程正在加速得如此之快。
指向原始笔记的链接
For the last 20 years, we’ve had very fixed ratios in terms of how work gets done. PM takes this amount of time, developers takes this amount of time, go-to-market takes this amount of time. And I think that contract is basically exploding because the build process, the closed solutionary process, the build process is accelerating so fast.
—— Oji · [08:37]
我想劝阻的一件事，就是在你开始做评估之前试图做大量的规划和准备工作。
指向原始笔记的链接
And one thing I would sort of discourage is trying to do a lot of planning and prep work before you start doing evals.
—— Ankur Goyal · [11:17]
我认为有很多它表现不太好的情况，但我觉得如果你把 LLM 当裁判的用途从一个基准重新定义为一个异常检测器，那它其实是可以的。
指向原始笔记的链接
Well, I think there’s a lot of cases where it doesn’t work very well, but I think if you reframe the utility of an LLM as a judge from being a benchmark to being an anomaly detector, then I think it’s actually okay.
—— Ankur Goyal · [25:10]
我认为如果你真的不清楚成功是什么样子的，提示词，你可能无法获得最棒的工作。我认为这对管理团队来说是真实的，对管理 AI 来说也非常真实。
指向原始笔记的链接
I think if you’re really unclear about what success looks like, the prompt, you’re probably not going to get the most amazing work. I think that’s true for managing teams and it’s very much true for managing AIs.
—— Julie Zhuo · [13:50]
有一个短语，我和我的联合创始人会在我们之间非常早地讨论并且我们与我们合作的很多公司分享了它，那就是说你真正想要的是你想用数据诊断并用设计治疗。
指向原始笔记的链接
There’s one phrase that my co-founder and I would always discuss with us amongst ourselves very early on and which we shared with like a lot of the companies that we work with, which is what you really want is you want to diagnose with data and treat with design.
—— Julie Zhuo · [32:46]
防守者面临的动态是，要做的工作远多于做这些工作的人。
指向原始笔记的链接
And the dynamics for defenders are there’s a lot more work to do than people to do it.
—— Vineet Edupuganti · [06:09]
我认为正向工作与倒推工作之间的重大区别是，是人类在启动 AI，还是 AI 在启动人类，对吧？
指向原始笔记的链接
I think the big difference between kind of the work forward versus work backwards is, you know, are humans initiating the AI or is AI initiating kind of the humans, right?
—— Evan Reiser · [26:27]
工作会膨胀以填满可用于完成它的所有时间。
指向原始笔记的链接
Work expands to fill the time available for its completion.
—— Stewart Butterfield · [54:43]
我曾在一些大型科技公司工作,我总觉得我们可以解雇 90% 的人,我们会走得更快,因为最优秀的人不会有这些干扰。
指向原始笔记的链接
I used to work at a bunch of the big tech companies and I always felt that we could fire 90% of the people and we would move faster because the best people wouldn’t have all these distractions.
—— Edwin Chen · [00:14]
A/B 测试效果不是很好，而且它对大多数事情都不起作用。
指向原始笔记的链接
A/B testing doesn’t work very well and it doesn’t work on most things.
—— Jason Cohen · [94:43]
最大的重点是定价不仅仅是页面上的那个数字。它是定位，它是他们的预算如何运作，它是它是如何构建的。
指向原始笔记的链接
the largest point is pricing is not just the number on the page. It’s positioning, it’s how their budgets work, it’s how it’s structured.
—— Jason Cohen · [46:08]
我们实际上需要 AI 发挥作用，因为我们将需要机器来做所有我们没有人力去做的那些工作，因为在未来 100 年里，我们在字面上将使地球人口减少。
指向原始笔记的链接
And we actually need AI to work because we’re going to need machines to do all the jobs that we’re not going to have people to do because we’re literally going to depopulate the planet over the next 100 years.
—— Marc Andreessen · [10:59]
在软件工程中，独创性在于偏离，但世界上正在做的很多工作实际上只是运行这些程序和运营。
指向原始笔记的链接
In software engineering, the ingenuity is in deviating, but a lot of the work being done in the world is actually just running through these procedures and operations.
—— Sherwin Wu · [55:14]
想要被喜欢我不认为是 CEO 的一个好特质，想要成为最佳工作场所可能也不是正确的路。
指向原始笔记的链接
Wanting to be liked I don’t think is a good feature of a CEO, and wanting to be the best place to work probably isn’t the right way to go.
—— Brian Halligan · [55:52]
你会意识到杠杆最高的做法其实是把出问题的地方捕获进一条评测，这样你做的任何改动你都知道是真正有效的，不会破坏你之前努力取得的所有其他成果。
指向原始笔记的链接
You realize that the highest leverage thing you can do is actually try to capture what’s going wrong in an eval so that any change that you make you know is actually going to work and it’s not going to break all the other stuff that you’ve worked towards.
—— Ankur Goyal · [05:49]
当你真正接受它时，你会意识到你在评测上投入的工作，不会在你每次尝试新模型、改一些措辞或稍微改变用例时就蒸发掉。
指向原始笔记的链接
When you really embrace it, you realize that the work that you put into doing evals doesn’t evaporate every time you try a new model or you change some wording or you change your use case a little bit.
—— Ankur Goyal · [06:00]
因为当基础设施不工作时，人会死。
指向原始笔记的链接
Because when the infrastructure doesn’t work, people die.
—— Jeetu Patel · [54:47]
这就是我在这些工具上如此成功的原因是因为我有 20 年以上的管理经验。我知道如何让员工成功。这就是你需要让这些智能体工作的东西。
指向原始笔记的链接
that is why I have been so successful with these tools is because I have 20 years plus of management experience. I know how to make an employee successful. That is what you need to make these agents work.
—— Claire Vo · [86:29]
唯一会记得你工作到很晚的人是你的孩子。
指向原始笔记的链接
The only people that will remember that you stayed late at work are your kids.
—— Lenny · [102:32]
如果一个自动化不能 100% 的时间工作,它就不是一个真正的自动化。
指向原始笔记的链接
if an automation doesn’t work 100% of the time, it’s not really an automation.
—— Kat Wu · [70:06]
所以我认为在早期，我的观点不是我们不需要 PM，我的观点是设计师应该做那项工作。
指向原始笔记的链接
I think in the early days, my view was not that we don’t need PMs, my view is that designers should do that work.
—— Evan Spiegel · [32:29]
如果他们知道如何调整 UI 的小细节，但他们不理解智能体循环是如何工作的，我会更倾向于那种对理解智能体循环如何工作有深厚亲和力并且能够设计它们的设计师或产品经理，而不是那些能编写传统软件并调整样式的人。
指向原始笔记的链接
If they know how to tweak small details of the UI, but they don’t understand how an agent loop works, I would much rather take the designer or PM that deeply has an affinity for understanding how agent loops work and can design those than someone who can write traditional software and tweak styles.
—— Max Schoening · [09:23]
我们已经有了全民基本收入。它叫作知识工作。
指向原始笔记的链接
We already have universal basic income. It’s called knowledge work.
—— Max Schoening · [01:10]
我们没有关于人类智能是什么的理论，我们没有关于为什么这些模型工作得这么好的理论，我们也没有关于它们会变得好多少的理论。
指向原始笔记的链接
we have no theory of what human intelligence is, we have no theory of why these models work so well, we have no theory of how much better they will get.
—— Benedict Evans · [26:50]
没有那么多发表的东西。学术会议的主要工作单元是论文。就像，参加学术会议的全部意义就是你发表论文。它在 Europe 2025 上被引用，你在 Google Scholar 上有出版物。这不再发生了。
指向原始笔记的链接
There’s not that much not much published. The primary unit of work of the academic conference is the paper. Like, the whole point of getting to an academic conference is you publish the paper. It is cited in Europe 2025, and you have the publication in Google Scholar. That is no longer happening.
—— Swyx · [09:12]
就像，所有有趣的工作都闭源在产品中，有时你甚至得不到个人引用。就像，你只是所有东西都汇总到 Gemini three 里面。有一千个贡献者，你不知道里面有什么。
指向原始笔记的链接
it all the interesting work is closed source in in products, and sometimes you don’t even get an individual citation. Like, you just everything gets rolled up into Gemini three. And there’s a thousand contributors, and you don’t know what is in there.
—— Swyx · [09:28]
我们在法国、在欧洲更倾向于对自己说，这种新技术让我们害怕。我们要先尝试监管它，然后再去完全理解它将如何运作。
指向原始笔记的链接
we tend a little bit more in France, in Europe, to say to ourselves, There is this new technology that scares us. We will try to regulate it first, before completely understanding how it is going to work.
—— Charles Gorintin · [25:56]
你真的需要把所有这些切成不同的碎片,并与这么多不同的供应商和平台合作,为了完成一个非常简单的可视化吗?
指向原始笔记的链接
do you really need to chop all of this into different pieces and work with so many different vendors and platforms in order to get like a very simple visualization done?
—— Reynold Xin · [13:31]
而我们看到的是，组织在尝试采用一种颠覆性技术时正在重复同样的错误，就是直接把技术扔进去，不改变任何关于他们工作方式的事情，然后对他们没有变得更快感到惊讶。
指向原始笔记的链接
And what we see is that organizations are repeating the same kind of mistakes when trying to adopt a disruptive technology of just plopping the technology in, not changing anything about how they work and being surprised that they’re not going faster.
—— Daniel Jones · [03:55]
往墙上扔屎，直到粘住为止，希望这东西能起作用。
指向原始笔记的链接
Throwing shit at the wall until it sticks, hoping that the thing is going to work.
—— Kitsa · [02:49]
一个拥有强烈信任和融洽关系的领导团队几乎能解决任何问题,而一个没有信任或融洽关系的领导团队,任何事情都可能成为问题。
指向原始笔记的链接
a leadership team with strong trust and rapport can work through most anything a leadership team without trust or rapport like anything can become an issue
—— Adam Mosseri · [33:26]
当我们与现场技术员合作时，他们告诉我们，如果我必须脱下安全手套来在一个小玩意上打字来使用你的小玩意，我就不会去做。
指向原始笔记的链接
When we work with field technicians, they tell us, if I have to take my safety glove off to type into a thingy to use your thingy, I’m just not going to do it.
—— Kriti Sharma · [05:16]
现在的魔力在于，以前这需要很多人，可能甚至数百名工程师，数年的努力，才能使某种技术或软件在制造业供应链中工作。
指向原始笔记的链接
The magic now is previously it would have taken a lot of people, maybe possibly even hundreds of engineers, years worth of effort to make some sort of technology or software work for manufacturing supply chain.
—— Kriti Sharma · [12:43]
人们基本上告诉我们，「我的大脑正在腐烂。我的工作感觉更糟糕了。」
指向原始笔记的链接
People essentially told us, “My brain is rotting. My work feels worse.”
—— Noam Segal · [47:48]
生产力的提升是真实的，但工作的质量以及生产它的人的敏锐度正在受到打击。
指向原始笔记的链接
The productivity gains are real, but the quality of the work and the sharpness of the person producing it are taking a hit.
—— Lenny · [52:31]
智能体不过就是我从这个座位上跳出去，你看到一把空椅子，但智能体在代表我做工作。
指向原始笔记的链接
The agent’s nothing more than me hopping out of this seat and you see an empty chair, but the agent’s doing work on my behalf.
—— Bradon Rogers · [00:29]
我认为不管是现在的 AI 还是敏捷或任何变化，听起来很难，但在开始时不要在消极的事情上花时间。找到成功的故事。如果你不能让它成功，其余的都不会起作用。
指向原始笔记的链接
I think regardless whether this is now AI or like agile or any change, um, as hard as it sounds, do not spend time on the negatives in the beginning. Find the success story. If you can’t make that work, the rest will not work.
—— Patrick Debois · [33:58]
这里的魔力不在于甚至很少是他们建议他们想要在产品里的东西。而是他们揭示出来的东西，那些对他们不起作用的、不显而易见的、只是个痛点的、或者与他们使用的语言不产生共鸣的东西。
指向原始笔记的链接
The magic here is not or even rarely what they’re suggesting that they want in the product. It’s what they’re revealing that doesn’t work for them or isn’t obvious or it’s just a pain or doesn’t resonate with the language that they’re using.
—— 嘉宾 · [03:59]
你承诺在未来做这件事，因为你不想现在做这件事。实际上这就是破绽。如果这真的这么重要，你现在就应该做。为什么要承诺在年底前做？
指向原始笔记的链接
You’re promising this in the future because you don’t want to work on it now. And there is actually the tell. If this was truly so important, you just work on it now. Why are you promising it by the end of the year?
—— David · [14:34]
有一线微光。我没法发布微光。它必须有最终的固体形状。否则，我只是在发布气体。那行不通。
指向原始笔记的链接
There’s a glimmer. I can’t ship a glimmer. It’s got to have a final solid shape. Otherwise, I’m just shipping gas. That doesn’t work.
—— 嘉宾 · [21:30]
我们有过竞争对手,他们把一切都献祭在速度的祭坛上,结果没有成功,完全没有。
指向原始笔记的链接
I think we’ve had competitors. That sacrificed everything at the altar of speed, and it didn’t work out, and not at all.
—— Eric Sager · [14:43]
你得想明白:当每四到六周排行榜榜首就出现另一个新模型时,可持续的竞争差异化路径到底是什么?
指向原始笔记的链接
You’ve got to work out, well, what is the path to sustainable competitive differentiation when every four to six weeks there’s another model at the top of the leaderboard?
—— Benedict Evans · [49:34]
所以杠杆不在于权重，而在于你如何连接工作。
指向原始笔记的链接
So the leverage is not in the weights, it’s in how you wire the work.
—— Garry Tan · [03:17]
我认为这些是将来我们回头看会说，天哪，真不敢相信我们当时让人做那种工作。
指向原始笔记的链接
I think these are jobs that will look back and say, God, I can’t believe we had people doing that kind of work.
—— Fred Turner · [65:32]
这说明了成为领域专家、拥有垂直专业知识的重要性。这种知识至少现在仍是真正被需要的，否则你无法重新想象这项工作。
指向原始笔记的链接
And so it shows you the importance of like being a subject matter expert and having vertical expertise. That knowledge, at least right now, is really needed. Otherwise you can’t reimagine the work.
—— Alex Lieberman · [13:14]
是的，百分之百。作为创始人，你的根本工作是两件事：第一，创造一个让人们感到被看见、被倾听、并被赋能去做出最佳工作的环境；第二，给业务降低风险。
指向原始笔记的链接
Yeah, a hundred percent, right? Your fundamental job as a founder is two things. Number one, create an environment where people feel seen, heard, and empowered to do their best work. And number two, to de-risk the business.
—— Damien Lewke · [20:24]
当领导层开始质疑时，我是否需要一名工程师加上每月 5,000 美元才能让他们完成工作？
指向原始笔记的链接
When leadership start questioning, do I need an engineer plus 5,000 a month just for them to do their work?
—— Heitor Lessa · [01:14]
大部分工作不是编码。它主要是协调，然后说服人们事情可能是怎样的。
指向原始笔记的链接
Most of the work is not coding. It’s largely coordination and then convincing people on how things could be.
—— Heitor Lessa · [08:36]
但是当模型只能做大约一小时的工作时，异步作为一种体验是很糟糕的。
指向原始笔记的链接
But when models can only do like an hour of work, async as an experience is kind of bad.
—— Lance Martin · [01:48]
如果你提供一个有价值的产品,资本主义会找到一种方法让供应链为你工作。
指向原始笔记的链接
if you’re providing a product of value, capitalism will find a way to make the supply chain work for you.
—— Sriram Krishnan · [19:24]
它是我最讨厌、讨厌的同事，然而它……它做得工作最好。
指向原始笔记的链接
It is my most loathed, loathed colleague, and yet it… It does the best work.
—— 嘉宾 · [22:54]
我认为卓越的工程师想做高影响力的工作，而那往往恰好是难的。
指向原始笔记的链接
I think great engineers want to do high impact work, which happens to be hard.
—— 嘉宾 · [22:56]
智能体不介意烦人的刁钻规则，它们可以很开心地去撞墙让事情跑起来。
指向原始笔记的链接
Agents are fine with annoying Infiniki, they can very happy to go bang their heads against the wall in order to make something work.
—— Rob Willoughby · [27:31]
如果 Transformer 是有利可图的,如果你可以花费更多的努力和资源来扩大 Transformer 以在下一个季度获胜,那么很难把大量的注意力和精力投入到可能在一两年内更好或重新定义该领域的事情上。
指向原始笔记的链接
If Transformer is profitable and if you can spend more efforts and more resources scaling Transformer to win in the next quarter, it’s very hard to put at least a lot of attention and a lot of energy to work on something that will maybe better or maybe will redefine the field in a year or two.
—— Jerry Tworek · [13:28]
结果表明,工作的量级比工作所基于的信息存储要大得多。
指向原始笔记的链接
It just turns out that the work is orders of magnitude bigger than the storage of information that the work is done on.
—— Alex Rampell · [09:39]
这些模型在如此多的数据上训练,它们如此巨大,然而它们实际上真的不知道如何做其中的任何一项工作。
指向原始笔记的链接
The models are trained on so much data and they’re so large and yet they actually don’t really know how to do any of this work.
—— Frederick Rankin · [46:31]
所以突然间，你的产品路线图对每个单个客户来说完全是一堆雪花，这是行不通的。
指向原始笔记的链接
So suddenly your product roadmap is a complete snowflakes for every single customer, which is not going to work.
—— Lindsey Scrase · [10:52]
当公司达到一定规模，如果你审计某人在做什么，可能有 30% 到 50% 的时间，不是在做让产品更好、服务客户等等的实际工作。
指向原始笔记的链接
You get to a certain size company and it might be 30 to 50% of the time if you audit what someone’s doing, it’s not doing actual work to make the product better, deliver for a customer, on and on.
—— 嘉宾 · [26:13]
这帮人都擅长的一点,比如 Ilya,这点真的被低估了,就是让这些大计算机运转得非常好。
指向原始笔记的链接
One thing these people are all good at, like Ilya, which is really underappreciated, is making these big computers work really well.
—— Reid Alberghati · [33:41]
而一个可运行的演示最多只是你必须做的工作的 1%。
指向原始笔记的链接
And a working demo is 1% at best of the work that you have to do.
—— Dmitri Dolgov · [08:21]
我们可以让 AI 为我们工作，或者我们可以让 AI 让我们去工作。
指向原始笔记的链接
we can put AI to work for us or we can have AI put us to work.
—— Claire · [20:37]
为了让这行得通，有两个因素需要汇聚。一个是发射成本下降，人们必须相信这一点。第二是，在地面建设基础设施正变得极其困难。
指向原始笔记的链接
To make this work, there’s a convergence of two factors. One is the launch costs coming down, and people have to believe that. The second is it becoming way harder to build stuff terrestrially.
—— Philip Johnston · [15:02]
我认为实际上这是一种非常反直觉的动态,更智能的模型实际上在委派工作方面变得越来越擅长。
指向原始笔记的链接
I think actually there’s this really unintuitive dynamic where smarter models actually get better and better at delegating work.
—— Walden · [03:54]
所以走得更快意味着一个小小的错位可能滚雪球成大量浪费的工作,而且那工作消耗代币,代币现在要花真金白银。
指向原始笔记的链接
So going faster means that a small misalignment can snowball into a ton of wasted work, and that work costs tokens, and tokens cost real money now.
—— Idan Gazit · [04:15]
你雇佣的每一个你曾经一起工作过的优秀的人，都会让这个地方对你曾经一起工作过的人更有吸引力。
指向原始笔记的链接
Every good person that you hire that you used to work with makes the place more attractive to the people that you used to work with.
—— Colin Zima · [47:01]
更重要的不再是你出货多快，而是你决定构建什么、以及怎么构建，才能让你建的系统持续组合在一起、互相协作运作。
指向原始笔记的链接
How fast you ship, but what you decide to build and how you decide to build it in order to be able to continue composing the systems that you build together and having them interoperate and work together.
—— Ali Haghani · [14:31]
他们真的只想做对他们来说在绝对前沿且在智力上极其有趣的事情。他们不想做任何其他事情。他们就是不想做。
指向原始笔记的链接
They really only want to work on stuff at the absolute cutting edge that is extremely intellectually interesting to them. They don’t want to work on anything else. They just don’t want to do it.
—— Jason Lamkin · [43:37]
我认为三年后，公司本质上就像董事会，20% 的工作是战略和思考，然后智能体只做 80% 的执行。
指向原始笔记的链接
I think in three years, companies will essentially be like board of directors, where 20% of the work is the strategy and the thinking, and then agents just do 80% of the execution.
—— Matt Swulinski · [60:41]
它们实际上是讲故事的新媒介，而且还没人知道什么会奏效。
指向原始笔记的链接
They are actually a new medium for storytelling and that no one knows what’s going to work yet.
—— 嘉宾 · [00:33]
但我认为我们发现的是，这里有一个巨大的鸿沟，实际上需要大量的手工人力工作才能跨越到人们觉得真正持久地引人入胜的东西。
指向原始笔记的链接
But I think what we found is that there’s this enormous chasm that is in fact a lot of manual human work to cross over to something that people find truly compelling in a durable way.
—— Elliot · [68:41]
最有价值的时机是在尽可能晚的时刻，因为那时你将拥有你试图对齐的实际系统可以与之合作。
指向原始笔记的链接
The most valuable time for that to happen is at the latest possible moment because then you would have the actual system that you’re trying to align to work with.
—— Nick Bostrom · [30:11]
你越能把这些体验引导到高价值、又不让用户费很大劲去使用，就越能建立对系统的信任，然后才谈得上委派和采取行动。
指向原始笔记的链接
The more you can steer these experiences to very high value, without causing customers to do a lot of work to use it, the more that builds trust with the system, and then it allows you to delegate and take actions.
—— Willem Avé · [21:26]
所以是的，我想我们都想要这种自动改进循环，但它们不适用于产品。
指向原始笔记的链接
So yeah, I think we all wanted these sort of like automatic improvement loops, and they just don’t work with product.
—— Ryan Carson · [20:25]
所以价值从做操作性工作转移到了判断。
指向原始笔记的链接
So the value sort of shifts from doing operational work to judgment.
—— Srini Raghavan · [26:20]
我们在 Parallel 的观点是，人类点击数据是一个 bug，使用搜索进行工作的智能体应该依赖智能体反馈，而不是人类反馈。
指向原始笔记的链接
Our view at Parallel is that human click data is a bug and agent doing work with search should rely on agent feedback, not human feedback.
—— Parag · [00:00]
我们在 Parallel 的观点是，人类点击数据是一个缺陷，进行搜索工作的智能体应该依赖智能体反馈，而不是人类反馈。
指向原始笔记的链接
Our view at Parallel is that human click data is a bug and agent doing work with search should rely on agent feedback, not human feedback.
—— Parag · [00:00]
所以一切对我来说，当你对信息和各种工作的相关信息有无限的需求时，其核心是一个围绕质量、成本和延迟的优化问题。
指向原始笔记的链接
So everything, to me, when you have an infinite appetite for information and relevant information for all kinds of work, it’s at its core an optimization problem around quality, cost, and latency.
—— Parag · [14:22]
不是为了让你下午 2 点就下班，而是为了让你真正花时间思考下一级别的任务、更高层级的上下文，变得有点创造力。
指向原始笔记的链接
Not so that you can just leave work at 2 p.m., so you can actually spend time thinking about next level tasks, higher level contexts, be a bit creative.
—— Will · [18:03]
仍然有一些相当稀缺的事情你可以在内部解决。数据科学仍然稀缺。真正好的品味仍然稀缺。综合分析仍然稀缺。
指向原始笔记的链接
There are still some things that are quite scarce that you can work on internally. Data science is still scarce. Really good taste is still scarce. Synthesizing analytics is still scarce.
—— Elaina O’Mahoney · [12:02]
热和功、熵产生这些概念，我们谈论机器学习模型时并不使用，但我认为它们为思考正在发生什么、以及如何改进模型，提供了一个非常新颖且有趣的视角。
指向原始笔记的链接
Concepts like heat and work and entropy, production, these things we don’t use when we talk about machine learning models, but I think they give you a very new and interesting perspective on how to think about what’s going on and how to also improve them.
—— Max Welling · [45:03]
摆脱组织结构图周围的那套废话。拥有这个东西并强调这个叫做工作图的东西。
指向原始笔记的链接
Just get rid of that nonsense around the org chart. Have this thing and emphasize this thing called the work chart.
—— Jay Parikh · [20:32]
你知道，它们中的大多数并不真正工作。你必须走向世界。你必须实际上与现实世界的公司互动，为了真正建立一些重要的东西。
指向原始笔记的链接
You know, most of them don’t really work. You have to go to the world. You have to actually interact with real-world companies in order to really build something significant.
—— Ofir Ehrlich · [08:19]
我认为我们投资组合中累积的 90% 的价值来自于我们在投资后与公司所做的工作。
指向原始笔记的链接
I think 90% of the value that accrues in our portfolio comes from the work that we do with the companies after we’ve invested.
—— Chris Olsen · [20:38]
耶稣基督，如果我公司里30%的人离职去为Harvey工作，那我就完蛋了。
指向原始笔记的链接
Jesus Christ, if 30% of my company leaves to go work for Harvey, I’m dead in the water.
—— 嘉宾 · [60:58]
如果我们把所有这些都抽象出来，并开始把这部分工作委托给 AI，那么本质上你最终得到的是一个产品经理他完全专注于发现，比如实际上最大的杠杆在哪里。
指向原始笔记的链接
And if we abstract all of this and start delegating this part of work to AI, then essentially what you end up with is you have a product manager that is solely focused on discovery, like where the biggest leverage actually is.
—— Mikael · [16:14]
所以当 AI 不工作时，这不是他们的问题。我们不是供应商。这是我们的问题。
指向原始笔记的链接
So when the AI doesn’t work, it’s not their problem. We’re not the vendor. It’s our problem.
—— Varun Shenoy · [04:19]
与其等待模型赶上做服务知识工作，如果我们只是使用那些代码知识并将知识工作表示为代码会怎么样？
指向原始笔记的链接
Rather than wait for the models to catch up on doing services knowledge work, what if we just use that code knowledge and represent knowledge work as code?
—— Varun Shenoy · [09:35]
任何时候你创造了一种激励来向人们展示你在工作，而不是真正去工作，你基本上就是在激励错误的事情。
指向原始笔记的链接
Anytime you create an incentive to show people that you’re working rather than to actually do work, you’re basically incentivizing the wrong thing.
—— Eno Reyes · [69:52]
在我构建了那个真正强大的东西并且对我工作的方式很友好之后，我很兴奋去分发它，我和几个 PM 进行了现场演示，我看着他们从零开始操作，我看到了多么不同。我以为它已经是一个完整的、完全成熟的工具，但我看到他们在使用它时很挣扎，因为它完全是按照我的工作方式调整的。
指向原始笔记的链接
And after I built something that was really powerful and good for the way I was working and I was excited to distribute it, I had live demos with several PMs that I watched them operated from zero, and I saw how different. I thought it was already this complete, fully baked tool, and I saw them using it and struggling because it was completely adjusted to how I work.
—— Daniel Blum · [36:53]
如果你是一个 GP 并且你把基金的 1% 到 2% 投入某事，如果它归零了谁会在乎呢？这无所谓。但是如果你把基金的 20% 投入某事，那最好能行。
指向原始笔记的链接
If you’re a GP and you put 1% to 2% of your fund into something, who cares if it goes to zero? It doesn’t matter. But you put 20% of your fund into something, that better work.
—— Brian Singerman · [20:23]
所以这件事能行得通的唯一途径就是个性化。
指向原始笔记的链接
So the only way this can work is through personalization.
—— Jorge Conde · [15:33]
因为我认为，你从不奏效的事情里学到的东西，和从奏效的事情里学到的一样多。
指向原始笔记的链接
Because I think you always learn more from things that don’t work and things that work.
—— Stéphane Bancel · [36:07]
可以这么说，你会不断地做循环，直到你有太多的循环，以至于你的大部分工作都在维护循环、以及构建用来观察它们的循环。
指向原始笔记的链接
It’s sort of, you’re going to keep working on loops until you have so many loops that most of your work is in maintaining loops and building loops to observe them.
—— Drew · [44:52]
我们可以让 AI 去干活,或者我们可以让 AI 以更有效的方式让我们去干活。
指向原始笔记的链接
we can put AI to work or we can have AI put us to work in a more effective way.
—— 嘉宾 · [23:23]
需求是永不满足的，这是由这些模型的运作方式决定的。
指向原始笔记的链接
The demand is insatiable, just given the way these models work.
—— Rene Haas · [15:04]
我们越来越感觉到,你想与智能体协作,而这些智能体在聊天框里并不太自在。
指向原始笔记的链接
it sort of increasingly felt that you wanted to work with agents, and those agents weren’t quite at home in a chat box.
—— Roshan · [02:05]
如果我们可以更像同事一样与智能体协作,而不是更像软件一样使用它们,会怎么样？
指向原始笔记的链接
what if we could work with our agents more like colleagues versus working with them more like software?
—— Roshan · [04:12]
那不是在做产品工作。那更像是把你的思考外包出去了。
指向原始笔记的链接
That’s not doing product work. That’s more kind of outsourcing your thinking.
—— Tyler Folkman · [47:27]
你低头在模型火车上埋头干十年，然后抬起头，我的天。
指向原始笔记的链接
You put your head down and work on the model train set for 10 years, and then you lift your head up and like, holy shit.
—— Paul Graham · [06:40]
我把自己亲手做的工作比作：拿着凿子和钉子，去凿医疗基础设施这堵混凝土墙，做集成。
指向原始笔记的链接
I liken the work that I did literally with my own two hands as taking a chisel and a nail against this concrete wall of integrating into the infrastructure of healthcare.
—— Julie Yoo · [05:07]
这是目前唯一——算是我们在医疗科技领域见到的第一波真正有机的采用浪潮——医生们就在用 AI 记录员，因为它们真的好使。
指向原始笔记的链接
This is currently is the only, like the first real organic adoption wave that we’ve seen in health tech where doctors are just using AI scribes because they freaking work.
—— Julie Yoo · [15:15]
我实际上认为这是把他们的工作蒸馏成了他们最擅长于世、最感兴趣的那件事，而围绕核心工作的一切行政事务现在都由别人替他们处理了。
指向原始笔记的链接
So, I actually think that this is a distillation of their job into the thing that they’re the best in the world at, that they’re the most interested in, and all the administration that goes around doing that core work is now handled for them.
—— Anish Acharya · [16:37]
即使有人复制了你的大想法，他们也永远看不到让大想法成立的那十几个小想法。
指向原始笔记的链接
And even if somebody replicates your big idea, they never see the small ideas that make the big idea work.
—— Anish Acharya · [57:40]
而我说，把你 DevEx 团队的规模翻一倍。把你数据团队的规模翻一倍。投入平台建设。对人类有好处，对智能体也有好处，而这就是能让你跑起来的东西。
指向原始笔记的链接
And I say, double the size of your DevEx team. Double the size of your data team. Like, work on platform investments. Good for humans. Good for agents. And that’s what will let you run.
—— Claire Vaux · [18:04]
如果你给人们设置太多摩擦，他们就会去做不安全的事情，因为人类就是这样运作的。
指向原始笔记的链接
If you put too much friction in front of people, they’re just going to do unsafe things because that’s how humans work.
—— Sharadh Krishnamurthy · [35:40]
我想让智能体让我为它们工作。
指向原始笔记的链接
I want the agents to put me to work.
—— Claire Vaux · [46:55]
人们其实很希望它能成，但他们不相信它会成。
指向原始笔记的链接
I think people really wanted it to work, but they didn’t believe it was going to work.
—— Aaron Schumm · [27:12]
我见过太多次有人尝试用 AI 来解析字符串，其实一个简单的正则表达式就能完成这项工作。
指向原始笔记的链接
Where a simple uh script uh the the number of times I’ve seen AI try being used to parse strings where a simple regist can just do the work.
—— Ran Arusi · [22:06]
管理上下文的能力——不只是在两小时的会话里，而是跨越数周或数月的工作——我认为这将是关键的，而且需要比今天长得多的上下文推理能力。
指向原始笔记的链接
The ability to manage context, not just through a two-hour session, but across weeks or months of work is something that I think will be critical and will also require much longer context reasoning than we have today.
—— Alexander Whedon · [32:19]
让我对开发 Grok Bot 感到如此兴奋的是，这是我第一次在非编码任务上感觉自己可以真正把工作委托给 AI，不用再去想它，回来的时候事情已经完成了。
指向原始笔记的链接
What made me so excited to work on Grok Bot is it was the first time for non-coding tasks that I felt like I could truly delegate work to AI, not have to think about it, and I would come back and it’s done.
—— Roman Ugarte · [01:00]
打造一群彼此喜欢的人，他们努力工作是因为这是为他们信任和尊重、希望看到他们成功的同事在做，而不是每个人只为了自己那笔钱。
指向原始笔记的链接
Building a group of people that like each other, that work hard because they’re doing it for their coworkers who they trust and respect and they wanna see them succeed versus everybody out just for a payday.
—— Jordan Tigani · [05:34]
某种希望是，如果这成功了，它可以成为其他开源项目采用的一种模式。如果不成功，那它就是一个警示故事。
指向原始笔记的链接
And kind of the hope is that if this works out, then this can be a model for other open source to use. If it doesn’t work out, then it’s a cautionary tale.
—— Jordan Tigani · [08:13]
如果你在做某件事,而且你在搭建一个一万行的代码拐杖来绕过模型的缺陷,那你很可能在做错误的事情。
指向原始笔记的链接
If you’re doing something and you’re building like this 10,000 lines of code crutch to work around the model flaws, you’re probably doing the wrong thing.
—— Tibo Sottiaux · [42:29]
如果你无法解释你想要达成什么,如果你无法解释你的意图,如果你没有与一个社区的联结,如果你没有品味,做出出色的工作会难得多。
指向原始笔记的链接
Like if you can’t explain what you’re trying to achieve, if you can’t explain your intent, if you don’t have a tie to a community, if you don’t have the taste, it’s going to be much harder to do great work.
—— Tibo Sottiaux · [70:55]
所有这些建立在对数据和学习直觉之上的分析工作,造就了我们如今拥有的模型——相比 2017 年的 Transformer,它就像一艘忒修斯之船。
指向原始笔记的链接
All of this analysis work built on intuitions about data and learning led to the model that we have now, which is like a ship of Theseus compared to the 2017 Transformer.
—— Chris Potts · [15:29]
在我们的行业里，「大概对」就是错。「大概对」最终会得到不能用的机器。
指向原始笔记的链接
Probably right is wrong in our business. Probably right ends up with machines that don’t work.
—— Andrew Anagnost · [23:17]
我们消费者正在尝到这种禁果的感觉：哇，事情真的可以这么容易吗？它真的可以直接就用？
指向原始笔记的链接
tasting this, like, forbidden fruit of, wow, things can really be that easy? Like, it can just work?
—— Demetrios Brinkmann · [25:23]
如果我们在工作中做的事仍然感觉笨重，或者必须非常技术化才能获得 AI 带来的进步，那我们就做错了。
指向原始笔记的链接
If what we do at work still feels cumbersome or we have to be really technical in order to get the advances that AI brings, then we’re doing it wrong.
—— Demetrios Brinkmann · [30:11]
没有理由一个连轮胎都不会换的人不能去造一艘 Corsair、参与 Marauder 或更大的船的工作。
指向原始笔记的链接
There’s no reason somebody who can’t change a tire shouldn’t be able to go and build a Corsair or work on a Marauder or work on a larger ship.
—— 嘉宾 · [16:28]
我认为,就目前而言,AI 还不足以取代人类完成最后 5%、10%,甚至 20% 的工作,即把作品从好提升到伟大的那部分。
指向原始笔记的链接
I don’t think, right now, AI is good enough to replace humans for the last five, 10, maybe even 20% of the work to get it from good to great.
—— Paul Bakaus · [11:50]
我认为你可以借助工具来磨砺你的品味,并展现出你更多的品味。
指向原始笔记的链接
And I think you can work with tools to sharpen your taste and bring out more of your taste.
—— Paul Bakaus · [14:59]
如果你要把一个智能体卖给某个人，你也必须帮他们解决评分标准的问题，即我们究竟如何验证这个智能体在做好的工作
指向原始笔记的链接
if you’re going to sell somebody an agent, you also have to help them with the rubric of how do we actually verify that this agent is doing good work
—— Maximillian Piras · [15:44]
如果你能找出一个相当可重复的模式来验证它们的工作，你其实也可以直接把智能体扔到那个问题上。
指向原始笔记的链接
if you can figure out a pretty repeatable pattern for verifying their work, you can actually just throw agents at that problem as well.
—— Maximillian Piras · [20:04]
所以你不只是构建一个智能体，你或许要构建一个用来验证那个智能体工作的智能体。
指向原始笔记的链接
you don’t just build the agent, you perhaps build the agent that verifies the work of the agent.
—— Maximillian Piras · [20:13]
工程师的时间只有大约 40% 用于写代码,其中只有约 10% 用于写新代码。也就是说,工程师有 60% 的时间花在非编码任务、非编码工作上。
指向原始笔记的链接
An engineer’s time is only like 40% writing code and only like 10% writing new code. So there’s 60% of an engineer’s time that is non-coding tasks, non-coding work.
—— Robert Lucero · [27:20]
人们有一种假设，认为用 AI 智能体会非常不一样，但其实是一样的。
指向原始笔记的链接
People have this assumption that it would work very differently with an AI agent, but it’s the same.
—— 嘉宾 · [44:38]
我想很多 PM 会意识到自己其实并不那么擅长从零到一，而且在一个别人的好想法上工作比在自己的坏想法上要有成就感得多。
指向原始笔记的链接
I think a lot of PMs are gonna realize they’re actually not that good at zero to one and it’s much more fulfilling to work on someone else’s good idea than your own bad idea.
—— Anish Acharya · [17:15]
现在出生的孩子将永远不会工作，至少不会为了钱而工作。
指向原始笔记的链接
That kids that are being born now will never work, at least for money.
—— Matteo Franceschetti · [60:18]
不要制定什么五年计划或者大跃进。中央计划对斯大林和毛泽东都行不通，对创业者同样行不通。
指向原始笔记的链接
Don’t devise a five-year plan or a great leap forward. Central planning didn’t work for Stalin or Mao and it won’t work for an entrepreneur either.
—— 嘉宾 · [15:53]
结果表明，拿到优质参考客户最简单的方法，就是把软件免费送给圈子里的一小部分人，然后努力工作直到他们满意。
指向原始笔记的链接
It turns out the easiest way to get good reference customers is to give your software away for free to a couple of people in that network and work hard until they’re happy.
—— Keith Peiris · [32:30]
你基本上是在向公司里的每个人传达：每个职位都是可以争取的，没有任何一个职位是他们只要足够努力、足够有才华就无法填补的。
指向原始笔记的链接
You’re basically communicating to everyone in the company that every position is up for grabs, that there’s no position that if they work hard enough and if they’re talented enough, they won’t be able to fill.
—— 嘉宾 · [33:47]
很大比例——我想说可能高达约 50%——的 Shopify 的 pull request（每次改动生产系统时写的东西）现在不是由传统意义上做工程工作的工程师创建的，而是来自我们公司公共聊天里的对话。
指向原始笔记的链接
It’s that a very large percentage, I want to say it’s probably up to about 50% of pull requests in Shopify, which again, pull requests every time you change the production system, you write a pull request, are created now not by engineers doing engineering work in the traditional sense, but out of conversations in our common company chat.
—— Tobi Lütke · [07:31]
我的人生哲学是，在生命的尽头我会遇见那个我本可以成为的人，而我一生的工作就是把我和那个我将要遇见的人之间的差异减到尽可能小。
指向原始笔记的链接
My life philosophy is that I will meet the person I could have been at the end of my life and the work of my life is to reduce the difference between the person I will meet to as little as possible.
—— Tobi Lütke · [45:12]
我们如何帮助你在工作之外和工作之中，删除尽可能多的你出于习惯、出于惯性、只是因为「我们一直是这么做的」而在做的事情，这样你才能放大你真正想做的事情。
指向原始笔记的链接
How can we help you outside of work and at work delete as many things that you’re doing out of habit, out of inertia, just because that’s the way we’ve always done it, so that you can amplify the things you actually want to do.
—— Jim VandeHei · [09:57]
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